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	<title>Comments on: Stupid catalog tricks: Subject Headings and the Long Tail</title>
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	<link>http://robotlibrarian.billdueber.com/stupid-catalog-tricks-subject-headings-and-the-long-tail/</link>
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		<title>By: John Mark Ockerbloom</title>
		<link>http://robotlibrarian.billdueber.com/stupid-catalog-tricks-subject-headings-and-the-long-tail/comment-page-1/#comment-617</link>
		<dc:creator>John Mark Ockerbloom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Apr 2010 17:34:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robotlibrarian.billdueber.com/stupid-catalog-tricks-subject-headings-and-the-long-tail/#comment-617</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&quot;Our challenge is to figure out how to present these things in a rational way in the online environment instead.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Well, here the online environment can work with you rather than agsinst you, since you can make displays that show you the hierarchies radiating out in all kinds of directions.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Ideally, for &quot;Great Britain -- Social conditions -- 19th century&quot; you&#039;d see not just that subject and its books, but related subjects and their books as well, displayed in a way that makes it easy for you both to find books of interest and to shift your focus based on what you find.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;See
&lt;a href=&quot;http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/book/browse?type=lcsubc&amp;key=Great%20Britain%20%2d%2d%20Social%20conditions%20%2d%2d%2019th%20century&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this link&lt;/a&gt; for an example of how it works for &quot;Great Britain -- Social conditions -- 19th century&quot; in a collection of about 40,000 titles.  The display shows 7 titles with that subject, and also shows a few others with more specialized subjects (social conditions in England during that time, or social conditions for women).  And then it goes on to shift the focus outward a bit, looking at books on social conditions in England &lt;em&gt;without&lt;/em&gt; the explicit time qualifier, and so on.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Our challenge is to figure out how to present these things in a rational way in the online environment instead.&#8221;</p>

<p>Well, here the online environment can work with you rather than agsinst you, since you can make displays that show you the hierarchies radiating out in all kinds of directions.</p>

<p>Ideally, for &#8220;Great Britain &#8212; Social conditions &#8212; 19th century&#8221; you&#8217;d see not just that subject and its books, but related subjects and their books as well, displayed in a way that makes it easy for you both to find books of interest and to shift your focus based on what you find.</p>

<p>See
<a href="http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/book/browse?type=lcsubc&amp;key=Great%20Britain%20%2d%2d%20Social%20conditions%20%2d%2d%2019th%20century" rel="nofollow">this link</a> for an example of how it works for &#8220;Great Britain &#8212; Social conditions &#8212; 19th century&#8221; in a collection of about 40,000 titles.  The display shows 7 titles with that subject, and also shows a few others with more specialized subjects (social conditions in England during that time, or social conditions for women).  And then it goes on to shift the focus outward a bit, looking at books on social conditions in England <em>without</em> the explicit time qualifier, and so on.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Rochkind</title>
		<link>http://robotlibrarian.billdueber.com/stupid-catalog-tricks-subject-headings-and-the-long-tail/comment-page-1/#comment-610</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Rochkind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Apr 2010 23:53:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robotlibrarian.billdueber.com/stupid-catalog-tricks-subject-headings-and-the-long-tail/#comment-610</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I think this says you&#039;ve GOT to get into the hieararchy in LCSH in order to make em useful. Yes, the hieararchy is weird. Yes, there are actually TWO OR THREE axes of hiearchy in LCSH. But it&#039;s the data we&#039;ve got, like Naomi says, and I think you&#039;ve got to get into it to make em useful.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;So a &quot;subject&quot; according to your analysis is simply the pre-coordinated, for example,&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&quot;Great Britain — Social conditions — 19th century.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;If you just make that a link and show all things with exactly the same heading, will you get others? Well, in my catalog, you&#039;ll actually get a few hundred, yeah. (And I TRIED to find a good example that wouldn&#039;t do that! But maybe I didn&#039;t try hard enough).  But let&#039;s pretend not.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Okay, but how many will you get if you look for &quot;Great Britain — Social conditions&quot;, or &quot;&quot;Great Britain — Social conditions - &lt;em&gt;ANY&lt;/em&gt;&quot;?  A lot lot more.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;How about &quot;Great Britain — Social conditions — 19th century — &lt;em&gt;something else&lt;/em&gt;&quot;?  A lot more there too.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;These subject headings were &lt;em&gt;designed&lt;/em&gt; for a card catalog world where they&#039;d all be laid out alphabetically, so the &quot;wildcard&quot; strings I suggest would &lt;em&gt;neccesarily&lt;/em&gt; be &lt;em&gt;right next to&lt;/em&gt; the original subject.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Our challenge is to figure out how to present these things in a rational way in the online environment instead. But it&#039;s definitely not &lt;em&gt;only&lt;/em&gt; linking to things with &lt;em&gt;exactly the same&lt;/em&gt; pre-coordinated subject heading -- if that often gets you very few hits other than your origin record, it&#039;s because that&#039;s not what LCSH was designed for.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this says you&#8217;ve GOT to get into the hieararchy in LCSH in order to make em useful. Yes, the hieararchy is weird. Yes, there are actually TWO OR THREE axes of hiearchy in LCSH. But it&#8217;s the data we&#8217;ve got, like Naomi says, and I think you&#8217;ve got to get into it to make em useful.</p>

<p>So a &#8220;subject&#8221; according to your analysis is simply the pre-coordinated, for example,</p>

<p>&#8220;Great Britain — Social conditions — 19th century.&#8221;</p>

<p>If you just make that a link and show all things with exactly the same heading, will you get others? Well, in my catalog, you&#8217;ll actually get a few hundred, yeah. (And I TRIED to find a good example that wouldn&#8217;t do that! But maybe I didn&#8217;t try hard enough).  But let&#8217;s pretend not.</p>

<p>Okay, but how many will you get if you look for &#8220;Great Britain — Social conditions&#8221;, or &#8220;&#8221;Great Britain — Social conditions &#8211; <em>ANY</em>&#8220;?  A lot lot more.</p>

<p>How about &#8220;Great Britain — Social conditions — 19th century — <em>something else</em>&#8220;?  A lot more there too.</p>

<p>These subject headings were <em>designed</em> for a card catalog world where they&#8217;d all be laid out alphabetically, so the &#8220;wildcard&#8221; strings I suggest would <em>neccesarily</em> be <em>right next to</em> the original subject.</p>

<p>Our challenge is to figure out how to present these things in a rational way in the online environment instead. But it&#8217;s definitely not <em>only</em> linking to things with <em>exactly the same</em> pre-coordinated subject heading &#8212; if that often gets you very few hits other than your origin record, it&#8217;s because that&#8217;s not what LCSH was designed for.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Naomi Dushay</title>
		<link>http://robotlibrarian.billdueber.com/stupid-catalog-tricks-subject-headings-and-the-long-tail/comment-page-1/#comment-609</link>
		<dc:creator>Naomi Dushay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Apr 2010 18:53:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Eric,&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I&#039;m in the &quot;what can we do with the data we have&quot; camp more than the &quot;how should our data be improved&quot; camp, by and large.  If we&#039;re using subjects to promote discovery;  having 7 million records with suboptimal inconsistent data is not surprising.  Even if there are patterns such as the ones you explored off the top of your head, retrospective cataloging seems unlikely.  (whispering) In fact, perhaps human cataloging isn&#039;t really scalable.  That said, I will take LCSH over call numbers, but since we have both ...&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric,</p>

<p>I&#8217;m in the &#8220;what can we do with the data we have&#8221; camp more than the &#8220;how should our data be improved&#8221; camp, by and large.  If we&#8217;re using subjects to promote discovery;  having 7 million records with suboptimal inconsistent data is not surprising.  Even if there are patterns such as the ones you explored off the top of your head, retrospective cataloging seems unlikely.  (whispering) In fact, perhaps human cataloging isn&#8217;t really scalable.  That said, I will take LCSH over call numbers, but since we have both &#8230;</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Eric Lease Morgan</title>
		<link>http://robotlibrarian.billdueber.com/stupid-catalog-tricks-subject-headings-and-the-long-tail/comment-page-1/#comment-606</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Lease Morgan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Apr 2010 15:25:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robotlibrarian.billdueber.com/stupid-catalog-tricks-subject-headings-and-the-long-tail/#comment-606</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Cool!. Now consider graphing the results of your counting.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Count other things such as length of book, dates, authors, etc. When you get this far compare the subject headings with the additional counts to see whether or not their are a relationships. Are books of one type of subject generally longer than others? Was this subject heading assigned more often during specific years? Are there common authors within subject headings? Are the books in question available via full text? Can you get those full text books  and determine whether or not the books were cataloged &quot;correctly&quot; by doing text mining against the full text. Are there sets of &quot;better&quot; words that could be used to describe the books?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Fun with counting.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cool!. Now consider graphing the results of your counting.</p>

<p>Count other things such as length of book, dates, authors, etc. When you get this far compare the subject headings with the additional counts to see whether or not their are a relationships. Are books of one type of subject generally longer than others? Was this subject heading assigned more often during specific years? Are there common authors within subject headings? Are the books in question available via full text? Can you get those full text books  and determine whether or not the books were cataloged &#8220;correctly&#8221; by doing text mining against the full text. Are there sets of &#8220;better&#8221; words that could be used to describe the books?</p>

<p>Fun with counting.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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